I'll be arriving without a degree in the not too distant future and was going to pick one up in KS rd. (No I don’t believe simply having a Degree makes you a better teacher). I've read a lot of posts etc and hear of people teaching without them. If any of you out there have experience of finding work, getting visas, contracts, WP's etc without a Degree I'd appreciate hearing your story. I would have been planning to work in a Government High school and not Language Institutes etc. Would I be limited in the places I could work without one, would I be under the constant threat of being sacked or my contract terminated without notice if the Government got wind of the school hiring teachers without a WP? Etc etc.
I was planning on setting up interviews with High schools around Chiang Mai province, before I arrive, and taking it from there. If that makes any difference.
They now verify degrees, find work without resorting to fraud mate.
There is work here for the keen without a degree.
See my post in Non-B thread too...
Man, ye guys are quick.
My main thing that I'm trying to clarify is that without a degree you won't get a work permit. Will a High school hire a Teacher and give them a 12 month contract without them having a Wp-wouldn't the High school then be breaking the law-or do they care if you have a WP or not? Will it be a lot more time consuming finding a High school that'll do this as opposed to if you rocked up to the interview with a Degree?
I have a TEFL Diploma (who doesn't) and a Legit Business Studies Diploma.
Thanks for your info too, it's appreciated.
[image: http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/ICL/ICL157/LJU_110.jpg]
Could be a problem
You will never get a WP without a real degree mate. I had my WP for 13 years and last year they would not issue a new one without seeing the original non B visa I was granted in my old passport over 8 years before. They would not go for a copy of which they had over 10. It was good luck that I had kept the old passport at home.
Four steps for that fake degree. 1. Your school. 2. Ministry of Education. 3 Immigration. 4. Ministry of Labour.
You figure its worth it?
You might get away with it. I'd say it depends on two things: Your ability to convince a department you're the right man for the job. Being good looking helps. RU handsome? Now if you got those two secured just pray they won't test your English ability.
you cant mention schools here...but if you go to ajarn.com, about half way down you will see
Type: Government School
Province: Pathumthani
Salary: 30,000 - 35,000 Baht/month
QUOTE:
"Ideally, you would have a Bachelor’s Degree in English or Education. If you are interested in this position, but you do not possess a Bachelor’s Degree, that’s O.K. Thai law states that any teacher in a Normal Program needs ONLY a high school diploma."
they will get you a WP and YOU pay for it.... no degree...work permit---35k
We've addressed this in many other threads.
You can be gainfully employed in a government school, providing someone on the staff has all the necessary credentials. You will 'technically' be hired as a teacher's aide.
I second AO on this (again) don't go the fraudulent route. At some point it will probably catch up with you.
There are ways two around non-degree status.
The front door. I can't speak for Bangers and some of the other larger towns and cities, but if you head out into the sticks, it's not impossible to find an employer who can do favours for you.
The back door. There are a few loopholes in the degree verification process. A crafty mind can identify them! [image: http://www.ajarnforum.net/vb/images/smilies/laugh.gif]
I worked a full semester with a guy whose only credential was his UK passport. He claimed to have finished some banking course, but his brother had lost the certificate in a wild party with Mia Farrow at Lord Bloffdearse's mansion in Bournemouth. When the new school year started, he was offered work across town (where they never asked to see my degree, either, as I recall).
ozvaldo says he wants to work in Chiang Mai province. Good luck; people with real degrees and real TEFL certs sometimes don't make 25K, although by now the prevailing wage might be 25,300 for newbies. Oh, there are guys in CMai making over 35K, but competition is rough. You might commute to Saraphi; a year ago the going rate there was 200 baht per contact hour. Or maybe MaeJo, or maybe MoJo, or maybe HiSo. [image: http://www.ajarnforum.net/vb/images/smilies/grin.gif]
And without paperwork, ozvaldo will become very familiar with visa runs. Perhaps monthly. But hey, Wizards of Oz can make it anywhere.
ozvaldo says he wants to work in Chiang Mai province. Good luck; people with real degrees and real TEFL certs sometimes don't make 25K, although by now the prevailing wage might be 25,300 for newbies. Oh, there are guys in CMai making over 35K, but competition is rough.
believe this oz, peace be speaking the truth...
oz, why do you want a work permit?
Quote Originally Posted by aging one
You will never get a WP without a real degree mate.
Well I know people that have a WP and no degree (or even comparable in some cases). So it's definitely possible, but certainly not easy.
You employer should verify the degree (or say they have), the MoE, labour and Imm don't anymore.
Let me guess: he wants a work permit so he can get an extended visa and not do visa runs to Tachilek, Myanmar. So, he wants a legitimate visa and work permit, based on an illegal, fraudulent, fake, phony KSR piece of paper, some of which are obviously counterfeit.
In July 2003, I started earning 25K (ten months per year, or 9 months in practice) by commuting 35 km from Chiang Mai. At that time, another teacher who'd been teaching in CMai for three or four years was making 25K, twelve months per year. Now, he'll probably make 35K in the new school year, but it's taken him 6 or 7 years to get there.
Quote Originally Posted by teacher1234
Thai law states that any teacher in a Normal Program needs ONLY a high school diploma."
On 28 January 2004 the Ministry of Education issued a decree about the qualifications of foreign teachers. The first 3 lines of the note are:
1: Bachelors degree or
2: Owner of the language or
3: if not owner of the language, education in teaching the foreign language.
Now, schools and/or Service Areas of MoE have their own interpretations or rules regarding the decree.
We had an applicant for a job. A non-native speaker from the west without a degree but holding a 120 hours (attended in Thailand) TEFL-certificate. So, we went to the Service Area of MoE to find out about their interpretation of the decree.
This applicant is approved to be an English teacher for Prathom 1-6 at our school.
In the past two years two teachers, from the UK, without a degree but with a TEFL certificate from the University of Portsmouth (UK) were approved to teach Mattayom 1-6.
So, if the school wants you. Go together to the Service Area to find out about their interpretation.
Stamp
[image: http://www.ajarnforum.net/vb/images/smilies/arrowup.gif] bladdy good quality paper though! :smile:
I have a TEFL but no degree and just finished a year at a Government school with a work permit. I also have several friends that have had the same. It is my understanding that government schools can swing it but not private schools. But things don't seem to be at all concrete? When I applied for my non-im B at Vientienne, the guy at the desk looked at my credentials(or lack of) and asked me if it was a goovernment school I was to work for. I nodded yes and all was good.
Teachers at government schools do not need a teacher's license. All you need at a government school is to convince the school to hire you.
My adivce is not to go fake, just hit the ground and find a decent job.
So if I understand correctly, government schools have more freedom when it comes to the rules for hiring foreign teachers. Aside from that, how do private and government schools compare? What would the advantages and disadvantages be? I have searched on ajarn and found that if you compare the wage it is nearly the same. So why would one choose a government school or a private school? Prestige?
If you have any info let me know.....I am interested to know which is the better choice.
Every school has its problems so it is hard to talk about advantages and disadvantages of government vs private schools. For me, there is no diffierence. If someone lacks a degree, there is a difference.
private schools (generally) pay better and (often) have better bennies, thus they can require more of the applicant in terms of academic background and experience. my understanding is, and i may be wrong or certainly there may be exceptions, but that you need a degree to teach in a public school ep program.
^^ Maybe true but the bottom line is if they like you they'll take you. A nice smile and a crisp white shirt and tie are worth a degree IMO.
Simple Economics 101 of supply and demand. They more they need you, the less the degree matters. Not necessarily if they like you. The younger you are, the more the degree (or lack there of) will look real to them.
Also if you are employed by one of those funny private language schools. As the school year approaches, those "real looking" degrees (or lack there of) will get you a job, but they will stumble with the providing the cost of obtaining your WP, telling you we may get in trouble if the Ministry of Education checks. Its a great ploy! Also, during the breaks, you will be the last to get any type of job.
It's just always something hanging over your head. "Sorry to tell you this after 10 years with us, but since you don't have a degree, we've hired .......
In my M2 classes at the govt. school I had 50+ students in an old,no aircon room with very limited resources. Though there are eceptions this seems to be the norm at govt. schools. I don't have alot of experience with private schools, and I'm sure they vary greatly, but many seem to have smaller classes, aircon, and better resources.
Yep seems to be that you'll get a job in a Government school with out a degree easily enuf. You'll just be teaching larger classes without quality resources. You might also be under less pressure as you wouldn't be teaching a small group of little b_____ds whos parents want a full daily synopsis of what you'll be teaching them for the big wad of cash they're handing over to the private school.